Did Paul Support a Rapture?

In a yahoo email group, John W. aka diversityisdivisive@y... wrote:

Paul supports the Rapture - Proverbs denies the Rapture:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


OH MY...this is way invalid, extreme wrong dividing of the word, and totally off the mark interpretation of Paul. I know a LOT about the rapture proponents, the scriptures they use and how they miss it! So let's take a critical look, shall we?

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The first question you want to ask is: What is the subject that is being discussed. In order to determine the subject, you have to look at verse 13 otherwise you will take THIS verse totally out of context. That's the problem with not studying line upon line pretext upon pretext.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

The subject Paul is addressing is "where the dead are".

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will GOD WILL BRING WITH HIM. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not PREVENT them which are asleep.

A better translation of the word "prevent" is "preceed". The reason that those who are asleep (died in their flesh body) will preceed those alive here and remain when the Lord returns is becasue they are already with the Lord. They have preceeded them.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

What TRUMP does the Lord return? Paul tells us, at the LAST TRUMP!

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Satan comes in the 6th Trump. Rapture believers believe they will be taken BEFORE Satan arrives and not have to go through the great tribution.

For the most part there is no argument that ALL will be "caught up" OR "changed" into spiritual bodies at some point in time, unless you have a different view based on Proverbs 2:21, 22, which i will address shortly. The only difference between rapture believers and non rapture believers is when this happens. Paul tells is explicitly in 2 Thess 2:1-3:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, BY THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, and [by] our GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul explains that the son of perdition, the man of sin, is revealed FIRST before the day of the Lord. Hence, NO pretrib rapture, according to Paul.

Concerning Proverbs, am I correcting in thinking that based on this scripture you might be thinking that some flesh beings will remain on the earth after the return of Yahshua?

21 For the upright shall dwell in the earth, and the holy shall be left behind in it. 22 The PATHS of the ungodly shall perish out of the earth, and transgressors shall be driven away from it.

I don't think this is talking about flesh beings. In the great book of Revelation, we find that there are only 2 churches approved of by YHVH of the 7. These churches are referred to as candlesticks. And the Lord says that if they don't repent He is going to remove their candlestick. And, when we get to Chapter 11, we find that there are only 2 candlesticks remaining, which are the 2 witnesses.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

These two churches are the only churches that are comprised of upright and/or righteous ones that Yah does not have a problem with yet what happens to them?

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

These last few righteous ones here on the earth are killed during the 6th trump. And then what happens?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, ***** 11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

They are resurrected and meet the Lord in the air or breath exactly like Paul said. John and Paul are in agreement.

Following this is the third and final woe where 7000 are slain in an "earthquake". These 7000 represent seed of the wicked one in that they descend into the nether world rather than ascend and the rest of those that remain (not remnant per se) are affrighted and give glory to the Lord of heaven, which is now hear on earth.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH and BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We are not going to be in flesh bodies but GLORIFIED bodies like Yahshua's and Yahshua is not flesh and blood.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

and are we not going to be like him?

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

DID, I am not beating around the bush here. I believe using scritpure I have addressed your concerns very directly and shown you how Paul did NOT teach a pretribulation rapture.